New Dictator Keith Roth flanked by (from left) Andy Shernoff, Albert Bouchard and Ross The Boss.
As far as reformations go, it was a longshot at best. We speak not of Oasis, but the much more seminal and important Dictators, out of New York City, who all and sundry figured had drawn their last collective breath after some bitter internal fallings-out.
The May 2020 announcement that the Dictators were reassembling - sans longtime frontman Handsome Dick Manitoba) - caught the world unaware. Before the first single, “Let’s Get The Band Back Together”, hit the Interwebs, it seemed similarly implausible that the new line-up was recording.
A new album, the plain language-titled “The Dictators” will be released online and on CD in September, with vinyl to follow in October. Which leads us to ask: How did punk rock’s original misfits and premier proto-punk influences find their way to being a band again?
Co-founder and songwriter Andy Shernoff gives us all the answers, live and on the line thanks to the wonders of Zoom…
On tour in Canada.
“I'm trying to make it short,” the bassist says from his home in the bucolic Hudson Valley, well outside New York City. “I had lost touch with (guitarist) Ross (The Boss). I was always in touch with Scott (Kempner aka guitarist Top Ten). He was my close buddy.
“And there was a bunch of money at (royalties collection agency) Sound Exchange being held because Manitoba would not release the money. So, he held it up for years and years. He wouldn't listen to the mediator. And so that got me talking to Ross again.
“And Scott was talking to Ross. We're communicating. How do we get this money? What's going on? What's the latest? Because it was actually a ridiculous situation where Manitoba wanted a piece of our royalties.
“Finally, Manitoba gives in. He says, ‘Okay, I'll sign off on it’. And Ross calls me and says, ‘Hey, let's get the old band back together’. It was the last thing I wanted to do in my life.”
Let’s back track here and fill in some substantial potholes: Shernoff, Kempner and Ross Friedman formed The Dictators as college students in upstate New York in 1972. Ross was guitar playing in a local band called Total Crudd.
At that stage, Andy and Top Ten had never played instruments in public. Shernoff was a zine writer for his own Teenage Wasteland who was in love with rock and roll. The duo convened in their share house where they practised and auditioned a few drummers. They picked Stu Boy King largely because he looked the part.
Happy days in the mid-'70s with HDM on board.
Shernoff was the original singer. Hard-partying roadie and White Castle hamburgers ambassador, Richard Blum, had some walk-on parts as guest vocalist - and ended up fronting the gang as Handsome Dick Manitoba. His timing was impeccable. He was just in time for a place in history and the recording of their classic debut album, “The Dictators Go Girl Crazy!” in 1975.
(If Deniz Tek luxuriates in the story that he was the template for “Iceman” in “Top Gun”, surely Manitoba gets bragging rights for inspiring John Belushi’s “Bluto” in “Animal House”. I digress ‘cos it makes good copy.)
The band’s formation and how it ended up on a major record label takes some beating.
“We (Andy and Scott) had never been in a band before. Yeah, yeah. I'm serious. God. We had a record deal in a year. It's unbelievable. And that was all down to (manager) Sandy Pearlman.
“Well, we were living together in this house in Kerhonkson, New York, it was $150 a month. It was basically one pot deal, and we paid the rent. And we would play all night long.
“And one day we had, you know, 10 songs together. And we asked Richard Meltzer asked (ED: sometime Blue Oyster Cult lyricist and later gonzo rock writing royalty) and Sandy to come up and listen to us.
“I don't know what the fuck Sandy heard. But he said, ‘Come to New York. I'm going to get you a deal’. And he did it. He did it. I don't know what he saw in us, you know?
“But Sandy's also the first person who told Patti Smith - when she was just doing poetry - 'You should be in a band’. Sandy was a visionary.
The band pre-dated but eventually joined the downtown New York City punk scene that famously spawned Blondie, Talking Heads, Television and the Ramones. They foundered after three albums; 1978’s “Blood Brothers” was arguably the high mark. It was too metal for punks and too punk for metalheads. Andy confirms that it was something of a “market correction” to set things right after the flawed stab at pop stardom that was its immediate predecessor, “Manifest Destiny”.
“The only record that we spent ridiculous money on was ‘Manifest Destiny’, which I call ‘the wrong record at the right time’ because it was recorded in 1977 when every band was releasing their classic records … except The Dictators unfortunately,” Shernoff offers.
“The failure of ‘The Dictators Go Girl Crazy’ in the commercial market -- I'm not talking about artistically - made us say: ‘Let's make a hit, let's make something a hit’. But my songs are not going to be hits. We're not a band that's going to get hits. So, it was a wrong turn. And we haven't gone down that route since.”
The Dictators ran out of steam without formally splitting. Reunion shows were a thing, but most of the membership became Manitoba’s Wild Kingdom. Their only album, “And You?” (1990) should have made them speed core superstars. Unfathomably, it did not - and the members went on with their own lives.
Manitoba ran a Manhattan bar. Shernoff was a sommelier (which means he recommended high-end wines to rich people). Kempner was a roots rock and roller (The Del-Lords were his main squeeze for many years.) Ross became a genuine metal superstar in Manowar and a European cult hero in the lesser-known Shakin’ Street.
Buit you can’t keep a good ‘Tator down. They roared back to relative prominence in the mid-‘90s, with Frank Funaro and JP Patterson on the drumming throne, and if you don’t own a copy of the 2001 album, “DFFD”, your life is empty. Allmusic called it “their best and most consistent” so if you’re in the dark again, you know what to do.
The Dictators toured, released a live record (their second) and generally ruled without troubling anyone’s charts, suing Napster or breaking into the mainstream’s mass consciousness. But fuck the masses if they can’t take a joke. They played the last night at CBGB. Even made it out to Australia (22 years ago this month).
And then Shernoff decided he needed a break. Made a couple of very cool but low-key solo EPs and played on projects like The Master Plan, but generally kept it low key.
Ross and JP Patterson continued under Manitoba’s leadership under the alternate name Dictators NYC. With Shernoff not writing songs, however, only one HDM original made it to vinyl (“Supply and Demand”) and the enterprise shuddered to a halt with Manitoba’s bandmates taking a walk after a European run.
Andy Shernoff jolts us back into today and the decision to restart in 2020:
“I had no interest in The Dictators. I had a great life. I'm playing in a bunch of bands. I live upstate New York. But Scott really wanted to do it. And he convinced me to say, ‘Okay, you know what? I'll do it if I like it. If I don’t, we'll stop’. And this is November 2019.
“I said, ‘Hey, let's get through Christmas, Thanksgiving. In January 2020. We'll start working on it’. Of course, in February and March, COVID happened.
“Reforming the band during the pandemic was the best thing that ever happened in my life. I couldn't leave the house, and it kept me busy.. And we started working on songs, passing ideas back and forth.”
Things became sadly complicated when Kempner was diagnosed withFrontal Lobe Dementia, the same illness afflicting Bruce Willis. Scott is on some of the band's new recordings but the condition forced him to stand down, and he passed away in November 2023.
“We’d seen early stages of Scott’s illness. And his sister was saying she didn't want him to get involved because (it) was messing him up, It was confusing him. We were devastated, we wanted Scott in the band.
“But so anyway, we said, let's do some recording. So, we had some songs. Let's go. Let's make a record. Let's do some recording just to feel things out. We can't play live. Let's keep busy. “
Rock and roll bands usually need a drummer. Shernoff turned to former Blue Oyster Cult skinsman Albert Bouchard.
“So, I called up Albert. I said, ‘Albert, I got a question to ask you. But the answer is Yes. You want to play on some new recordings with The Dictators’. He goes, ‘Of course’. So, we started working with Albert.
“And then we'd been together two or three times. And it's really going great. And Ross goes, ‘Albert, why don't you join the band?’ And Albert goes, ‘I thought I was in the band!’”
“So, it was kind of a very joyful experience. Because we really love playing with each other. And so, we wanted a replacement for Scott. And I wanted a guy who could sing. And Albert suggested Keith Roth.
“Now, you don't know Keith Roth, but he's played with a bunch of people including David Johansen and Cheetah Chrome. And he's also a DJ on Sirius Radio.
“So, he's got a life, you know? And I checked him out. And I said, ‘Wow, this guy is a pretty good singer’ so we brought him down and he clicked right away. He's from the Bronx. He's a little younger than we are. But his older brother was friends with Scott.
“And he claims the first record he ever bought was ‘Dictators Go Girl Crazy!’. I don't know if he was blowing smoke up my ass. But he claims it. And I go, ‘Are you fucking with me?’ He goes, ‘No, it's the truth. It's the truth’.”
Which that pretty well brings us up to the here and now – and the new album.
So how does it sound?
The band on “The Dictators” is a different one to the one that populates its past. How could it not be? The album is book-ended by “Let’s Get The Band Back Together” (originally recorded by Shernoff for a solo EP) and “God Damn New York”. Andy takes the vocal and they’re classics in their own right.
The former has a lick of the old band’s wise ass humour (“Yeah, Yeah/We’ll have a good time/We’ll do a few lines/Yeah, Yeah Yeah/Forget the time that I nailed your wife”) while the latter reveals Ross’s patented guitar roar to be intact, providing a backdrop to lyrics about urban renewal producing cultural loss.
There’s social commentary about conspiracy theorists (“My Imaginary Friend”) and a touching ode to the late King of New York (“Sweet Joey”).
Ed Stasium’s punchy production is bang on the money.
The headline news is that the new guy can sing without trying to be his predecessor. The band’s still The Dictators but a different variant.
Shernoff, Roth and Bouchard treading the bnoard. Joe Bonomo photo.
Which brings us to The Elephant In The Room Question. What’s the reaction been to Keith Roth (“doing a Sammy Hagar”, Andy quips) at shows the band has played to date?
“There are people who go, ‘Manitoba was The Dictators’. We knew that and those people are not going to be interested in what we do. But overwhelmingly, I think, people are digging what we're doing because it's a different flavour of the same band.
“I think he (Keith) is a really good singer. He's a guy with good presence, he can handle himself speaking. His job is speaking in front of people. And he's a regular guy, not neurotic, not difficult.”
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Speaking of the record, The Dictators deliver a refreshed version of Blue Oyster Cult’s outlaw motorcycle gang themed “Transmanicon MC”. If you havcen't been paying attention, Albert Bouchard played on the original in 1972.
“He (Albert) recorded that for his last solo record. I said, ‘Hey, we need songs, Albert’. And we put this on the record. So, we made a few little changes. We did a remix. And it's there. It sounds great.
“I can't speak more highly of working with Albert, who's been my hero and a good friend and a great musical contributor. I mean, the guy's not just a drummer. The guy's a songwriter, he's a singer, he's a producer, he's an engineer, and is tremendous on vocals.
“He really helped us get our vocal blend together and the harmonies and stuff like that.”
Were the stadium-filling Blue Oyster Cult and The Dictators close in the ‘70s?
“We were pretty tight, but Albert was always my best friend in the band. So, we played with them probably 30, 40 times, back to the day. Our very first show as a new band was opening up for the Blue Oyster Cult at a theatre at Staten Island.”
Ironically, some of the shows The Dictators in their current incarnation have been with BOC with Bouchard pulling double duty. Not bad for age 75.
Given Ross The Boss’s Guitar God status, I’m curious if he was a fully formed talent when Andy first crossed paths with him.
“Yes, he was,” is the answer.
“I was going to school at a state university in a town called New Paltz. It's about an hour and a half from New York City. And it was like kind of a party school, and they had great concerts. That's why I went there, and I saw the best concerts.
Ross looking very much The Boss. Joe Bonomo photo.
“And Ross was in a band called Total Crud. And I was friendly with him. And one day he says, ‘I'm quitting Total Crud and I'm going to start a new band. And you want to be in it? I want to get Scott in it also’.
“He will proudly tell you, ‘I don't use pedals. That's his thing. It's absolutely his brand, isn't it? Yeah. It's all in the hands. His tone is in the hands.
“I'll tell you a little story here. I played on some Ramones records, and they had got Johnny's guitar set up (in the studio). Daniel Rey, Ed Stasium or I would play it, but the only time it really sounded like the Ramones is when Johnny's playing it. It's all in the hands of the musician.
“The instrument is a vehicle, but you want your ‘65 Les Paul or Stratocaster versus a new one. You're not going to hear that. It's all about the hands of the musician. And I stand by that 100 percent.”
Back to the record and one song that’s absent after emerging on video is a cover of “Crazy Horses”, the 1972 hit for The Osmonds. From which part of left field did this one emerge?
“It was my idea. It was one of the first songs we did,” Shernoff reveals. “I had no idea at the time how many bands had covered that song. If I knew that, I probably wouldn't have suggested it.
“But I like our version…And it'll be on some kind of future thing. It's not a real focus of what we're doing now. But it's a fun song. I think we did a good version of it. I like our video. It's a fun video. You know, so just another texture in the quilt.”
So what’s the next stitch going to look like?
“We've done some shows with Blue Oyster Cult. We did a West Coast tour with The Damned, and then an East Coast tour with them, We’ve played Canada and Spain.
(Our man Geoff Ginsberg's report on one of their first US shows in November 2022 is here.)
“And this is the thing: our booking agent is our former road manager. And our manager is our former roadie. So it's kind of like a big family. And they're actually looking at live things now.
“We want to do an opening thing because when we play with someone like The Damned, we have nice dressing rooms. We're a bunch of older guys, we're a senior citizen band. So, we don't want to play a punk rock club where the dressing room is right behind the stage.
“You want to do it in a little bit of comfort. We prefer playing theatres, but we can't headline a theatre. So, it means we have to open up for somebody. We might have to play some smaller clubs to get on a roll. But first we also want to see the reaction to our first record in 23 years.
“You know, the business today is, is not what I grew up in. We're a bunch of senior citizens. We're facing a lot of strong headwinds. We were never a really popular band. We have an audience, but we want to see if we can boost our numbers on Spotify, which have gone up.
The new album's cover.
“And in a month or so it's gone up about 25 percent. We have a digital company that does that, handles that and they're doing a good job. And we have a company doing the vinyl and the CD. So, we'll see how they do.
“You know, it's going to be a challenge, but we're up for the challenge.
“And you know, my mantra, this is Andy's mantra: ‘Every day you make music is a good day’.”
It’s been a wide ranging chat. Any chance of Teenage Wasteland being published online so we can see it?
“It's a little too stupid. I'm not a writer - I wanted to be a writer to get free records A lot of free records. I'm not a good writer. I know a lot of writers. And they can sit down, and they go, ‘Bang’ and they’ve got a thousand words.
“I don't have the drive every day to write songs like I used to or to be creative. My life is different. I'm a senior citizen. And I love making music. I love making music with my friends. And I like touring, and I like playing for people.”
So, I’ve been to NYC a bit but what’s the Hudson Valley all about?
“It’s about two hours north of New York, outside of Woodstock. Which is not where the festival was, but there are tons of musicians, tons of artists here. It's a rural area.
“When I got there, I was walking through my property and seeing bobcats and all these things. And we have a lot of farms, a lot of good food. And a lot of New Yorkers have moved up here, especially since the pandemic.
“People don't have to be in an office. They can work remotely. And I love it. I'm happy as a -- what's the analogy? Whatever analogy. You choose the analogy. You know. (laughter) It's a great life.”
Andy does a spot of shopping.
But is the wine any good?
“The wine? The wine around here, they do grow some wine. Yeah. I'm not going to talk about it. No, It's okay. But, see, I was in the wine business for a long time. And I was actually -- I was in the high-end wine business. So I drank all this expensive wine. I kinda know what I like. And what I like, I have to get it online.
“I like cult Californian Pinot Noir. I like Spanish white wines from Galicia. I like Austrian white wines. I like weird stuff. A local wine store doesn't have that kind of stuff.”
“We're actually starting to work on another record now. We're going to redo some old songs. We'll put ‘Crazy Horses’ on it. We haven't started yet. In September, we’ll have our first rehearsal.
“The new record was recorded predominantly by trading files. It's a very slow process. If we’re sitting in a recording studio and I might have an idea, We try that idea, then Ross might say, ‘Yeah, but what if I did this?’ So he tries it then I says, ‘Well, yeah, I like that, but can you do this way’. We’re talking about 10 minutes to work out a part.
“You do that online, that back and forth, it takes weeks. But it's the only way for us to record right now.
“We're not going to the studio. This is how we do it.: We go to Albert's house. Albert has a drum kit that's electronic and it goes to his computer. We sit around and we start fooling around. ‘Hey, this is pretty good’. Okay, we keep it recorded.
“Albert fixes his drums so it sounds professional. Or gets it to feel right. He sends it to me. I put down the bass. I send it to Ross. Ross puts down the guitar. I change the bass. Ross adds more guitar. Albert goes, ‘I'm going to change my drum part’. He changes his drum part.
“Albert and Ross are in Queens and I'm upstate. So it's not easy to get together. People have businesses and kids and grandkids. We're senior citizens."
The morning’s marching on and one of us has to be at work. Is there a favourite song on the new record?
“No, I don't have a favourite.”
What about “Sweet Joey?”, I ask. It’s the record closer and a touching remebrance of the late Joey Ramone, It seems like there’s a lot of Andy Shernoff, emotionally spewaking, in that one.
“That might be my favourite. It was more of a personal connection happening. I think I really caught Joey. His brother loves his song. I think I got him. I caught him the way I wanted to catch him.
“I didn't make it too complicated. I didn't mythologize him. I just said, ‘It's the way it is’, you know, ‘a life saved by rock and roll’. Which is true.
“I knew him before he was in the band. He'd come see The Dictators and he was this goofy guy who looked like he was the guy that got beat up in high school - because he was the guy who got beat up in high school.
“And then he's in his band and they’re, you know, geniuses. I don't know, maybe genius is too strong a word, but certainly one of the most life-changing bands in rock and roll history. The Beatles, Ramones, Stones. I don't know, who else. They changed rock and roll.”
At this point, of course I put a vote for the Stooges, but maybe their influence is retrospective, given they never got mainstream recognition while they were bumming around in person.
“Stooges certainly influenced a lot of people, but how many bands sound like the Stooges? I can name a few good bands that sound like the Ramones - and 25 of them are from Australia!
Four 'Tators in a tunnel.
“Back in those days, if you met somebody who liked the Stooges, you immediately became friends with them, because there weren't any Stooges fans. They were so out there and so un-commercial, you know.
“My favourite record is Iggy and the Stooges’ “Raw Power”. Iggy is the one, you know,. I like the first two records a lot, but “Raw Power” came out when we were forming the band.
“So it was, ‘Wow, if we could do this, if we could create this kind of power and this kind of great songwriting and riffing and lyrics…’ You know, that was our dream.”
I'm just blown away the fact you saw them three times at Max’s in their mythical 1973 stand. When they (or at least Iggy) really were covered in bruises.
“One of the three best concerts I've ever seen in my life.”
What were the other two?
“Bruce Springsteen, maybe at the Bottom Line (club), even though I saw other ones. There were a bunch of Bruce Springsteen shows that were up there.
“Let me say five. KISS. I'd seen them in New York playing clubs. They went out touring. They came back to New York before the live record and they played at Beacon Theatre, which is a nice respectable place on the West Side. And wow, they blew my mind. They were so good.
From the Shernoff Archives.
“There were Who concerts that were great. And I've seen a lot of great shows, but I'm talking about the most mind-blowing. So, mine were probably The Stooges The Who, Bruce Springsteen, KISS and AC/DC.
“The first AC/DC show in New York, they opened for The Dictators. And we played with them in Ohio. We did a few shows with them. And I didn't know who the fuck they were. So, we do our thing and they came out - and I was blown away.”
DFFD.
“The Dictators” is released on streaming and download platforms on September 6 , on CD on September 20 and on vinyl on October 4 on vinyl. Place pre-orders here
Read the best Andy Shernoff interview ever (Andy agrees) by Aussie David Laing and the sixth most popular most popular Please Kill Me stories in its history here.
The Dictators Official Website
